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On 5/17/2021 at 5:24 AM, Boudrias said:

Seriously, how long does it take to get a statement and conclude this investigation? If she says he was out of line then lay charges. I suspect someone wants to play politics with the situation. 

There are a lot of factors.

 

He could be guilty. Some evidence inadmissible? Which is a real possibility considering a civil case is out there.  The burden of evidence legality not as strict.

 

The girl was young at the time. Those, not yourself, said why not come forward then? A trial can be more trauma than an incident. Understandable... 

 

Still brave to come forward, time delay or no! Some maturation, maybe support surfacing? Made it more possible for her. Or pressure from the reporter???

 

Evidence itself is harder to come by now. You cannot just confiscate a phone. They're long gone? I assume DM's etc. are somewhere out there in digital hell. 

 

 

I could be mistaken.  I believe so far its also a claim of misconduct. Which is serious. Very! Still different than rape. Still did not take no at face value. According to reports?  Who knows what happened... 

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On 6/2/2021 at 2:25 PM, Fred65 said:

Neither of us know that. But I can't understand why an owner would hire a  guy based on his scouting acumen and then under mine that facet of his knowledge. Plus of course we have this evidence

 

Canucks draft meeting: Jake Virtanen - All Access - YouTube

 

Please note this Jim Benning talking not FA

At the time, JV was considered a good pick in the top 10, so it wouldn't be a stretch for the GM to make a selection that the owner was leaning toward.  It's big business and sometimes that gets in the way of other plans.

 

I think the learning that came from the selection, is a formula of what player characteristics the team wants to stock up on.  JV seems to fall short on a few of these characteristics.

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23 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

At the time, JV was considered a good pick in the top 10, so it wouldn't be a stretch for the GM to make a selection that the owner was leaning toward.  It's big business and sometimes that gets in the way of other plans.

 

I think the learning that came from the selection, is a formula of what player characteristics the team wants to stock up on.  JV seems to fall short on a few of these characteristics.

Yeah, it seems that after JB's first draft, he adjusted the characteristics he focuses on in subsequent drafts to put more weight on character/determination rather than physical tools.

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1 hour ago, higgyfan said:

At the time, JV was considered a good pick in the top 10, so it wouldn't be a stretch for the GM to make a selection that the owner was leaning toward.  It's big business and sometimes that gets in the way of other plans.

 

I think the learning that came from the selection, is a formula of what player characteristics the team wants to stock up on.  JV seems to fall short on a few of these characteristics.

Craig Button actually had JV rated in the second round

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1 minute ago, Fred65 said:

Craig Button actually had JV rated in the second round

I remember that too.  He said Jake had no hockey sense, or some such thing.  

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1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I remember that too.  He said Jake had no hockey sense, or some such thing.  

Credit where it's due, the man was right

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1 hour ago, Fred65 said:

Craig Button actually had JV rated in the second round

Yes I know that, but he appears to be the exception regarding Jake.  Button has made blunders as well; all scouts do.

 

That really has no bearing on whether the owner influenced the pick (as a great business investment) or it was solely the GM and his scouting staff.

 

It doesn't matter now.  JV had the skill level to at least make the NHL, but now he may have lost any future opportunities to maintain his status as an NHL player.  At the very least, he will likely never play for his home team again.

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1 hour ago, Fred65 said:

Craig Button actually had JV rated in the second round

and he had Boeser way up at #9, higher than the other rankings.  If we had used Button's draft lists over the Benning tenure we would have had:

 

2014- Ehlers, Kempe

2015 - Boeser (he had him 9th)

2016 - Matthew Tkachuk

2017 - Glass

2018 - Hughes

In that case we miss on Petterson, but adding Ehlers, Kempe, and Tkachuk instead of Virtanen/McCann/Juolevi more than makes up for it I think.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Provost said:

and he had Boeser way up at #9, higher than the other rankings.  If we had used Button's draft lists over the Benning tenure we would have had:

 

2014- Ehlers, Kempe

2015 - Boeser (he had him 9th)

2016 - Matthew Tkachuk

2017 - Glass

2018 - Hughes

In that case we miss on Petterson, but adding Ehlers, Kempe, and Tkachuk instead of Virtanen/McCann/Juolevi more than makes up for it I think.

For me there's certain people I enjoy listening too. Those that use facts and can explain their decission. I like Ferraro, Button Gilman and Gillis. All very logical and clearly intelligent they do not speak bases on emotion.  As to Glass he is on a stacked team but will be a good player IMO.... 6'3" /210 centre 

 

Strangely enough I was thinking of Juolevi. If Edler returns and Rathbone and Hughes are the other LHD, could you get a 1 st round pick for Juolevi and frankly I really doubt it, maybe a second ... maybe, which puts Juolevi where he should be ranked

Edited by Fred65
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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Provost said:

and he had Boeser way up at #9, higher than the other rankings.  If we had used Button's draft lists over the Benning tenure we would have had:

 

2014- Ehlers, Kempe

2015 - Boeser (he had him 9th)

2016 - Matthew Tkachuk

2017 - Glass

2018 - Hughes

In that case we miss on Petterson, but adding Ehlers, Kempe, and Tkachuk instead of Virtanen/McCann/Juolevi more than makes up for it I think.

I doubt we're high enough to draft Hughes/Glass/Pod/Hog had we drafted Ehlers/Kempe/Tkachuk. Tkachuk would also be iffy since Ehlers was a 40 point player in 2015-16.

 

in 2016-17 Ehlers had 60 points, Boeser was on pace for also 70 and Tkachuk had 50.

Kempe was a 40 point player in 17-18. 

 

These youngsters made early impacts.

 

2016-17 we would have had Tkachuk/Ehlers/Boeser on the team and would have been a much better team than what we actually had in 2016-17 by an immense margin. 

 

With the youth stepping up early JB would likely made a Miller-type trade much earlier so we probably wouldn't have one of the 2017/18/19 1sts.

 

So safe to say we probably wouldn't be drafting top 10 from 2017 on and miss out of Hughes/Glass/Pod?/Hog?. People would probably be considering that the 'rebuild ended' around that time, years earlier than what we initially thought in real life.

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Provost said:

and he had Boeser way up at #9, higher than the other rankings.  If we had used Button's draft lists over the Benning tenure we would have had:

 

2014- Ehlers, Kempe

2015 - Boeser (he had him 9th)

2016 - Matthew Tkachuk

2017 - Glass

2018 - Hughes

In that case we miss on Petterson, but adding Ehlers, Kempe, and Tkachuk instead of Virtanen/McCann/Juolevi more than makes up for it I think.

Kempe is a good player but not good enough to tip the scale in a discussion like this.

 

I personally believe nobody will even consider trading EP + OJ for Ehlers + Tkatchuk in a few years, when it matters, but time will tell.

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16 minutes ago, J-P said:

Kempe is a good player but not good enough to tip the scale in a discussion like this.

 

I personally believe nobody will even consider trading EP + OJ for Ehlers + Tkatchuk in a few years, when it matters, but time will tell.

Kempe just has to be better than McCann for the comparison.

 

It would be EP and OJ for Ehlers, Tkachuk, AND Glass as the “trade”.  I think Petterson is likely the best player of the bunch at their respective peaks... but then Glass should be progressing to a 2nd line centre as he develops... so that is likely 3 top 6 players for one top 6 player and Juolevi who is probably a 4th-6th defenceman IF things work out for him.

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7 minutes ago, Provost said:

Kempe just has to be better than McCann for the comparison.

 

It would be EP and OJ for Ehlers, Tkachuk, AND Glass as the “trade”.  I think Petterson is likely the best player of the bunch at their respective peaks... but then Glass should be progressing to a 2nd line centre as he develops... so that is likely 3 top 6 players for one top 6 player and Juolevi who is probably a 4th-6th defenceman IF things work out for him.

Not disagreeing regarding draft ranking but drafting is one thing and evaluating developed players trade value another .

 

I think if EP hits his ceiling he's in a different tier. I still hope OJ will be a second pairing D that can both shutdown players and make crisp breakout passes. Also OJ and EP have a history of raising their level in championship games, might be too early to tell regarding Ehlers and MT but I don't have that feeling regarding them.

 

Kempe and Glass are fine players but again, when evaluating trade value they are depth only compared to the other players.

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Posted (edited)

I don't think I'd do EP for Tkachuk & Ehlers. (That's the crux of it). EP is a legit first line center, looking like a franchise player (if he isn't already). Even if it works out with a 2nd line C in Glass, your still without a true 1C.

 

 

Its interesting how the Jake pick stands out compared to the 1st rounders since. As others have said; determination, character & leadership have clearly been targeted, along with talent: Pettersson, Hughes, Boeser, Podkolzin, all guys who are highly regarded in those areas. You don't question the commitment of any of them. 

 

Watching Ehlers play in the playoffs, its too bad we didn't go elsewhere in '14 - I always thought he had the potential to be a 'driver' for a team - but Jake isn't the only disappointment from that class. I really liked Micheal Dal Colle alot at the time, & he's been even worse than Jake. 

 

I'm almost more disappointed we didn't trade him a few years back - when he still had high of value - rather than the pick itself. But it is what it is. 

 

Edited by Smashian Kassian
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Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't a player have to be 26 or older to get bought out ? Hopefully Jake Gets his life in order on and off the ice. I know nothing about his circumstance other than what I have read on here .  Hockey wise if he knew this was happening could that not  account for the seemingly backwards progression in his play ? I thought he was finally starting to show his potential the season before last . 

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7 hours ago, Alflives said:

When does the buyout window open, so we can finally be rid of this guy.  

Virtanen, Roussel, Eriksson and Holtby.  All four needs to be bought out. 

 

Combined dead cap space of $6.3M for 2021-22 (and add in Luongo's $3.1M for a total of $9.4M dead cap space), and $3.64M dead cap for 2022-23.  Gives the Canucks plenty of cash to sign Pettersson and Hughes to 3 x $7.0M bridge deal; Hamonic at 3 x 3.0M; cheapie back up goalie (big save Dave Rittich; offer Sutter a $1.5M contract.

 

Leaves nearly $7.0M to sign a top six forward and third line forward.

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13 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Craig Button actually had JV rated in the second round

Yeah, I agree, maybe late 1st at most. Was not a fan of his in his draft year. He basically bullied smaller players, or less physically gifted guys at least. I was thinking to myself watching him play " hes not gonna be able to do that in the NHL", I can see the lure of potential because his size and speed but I also believe that hes a BC boy played a pretty big factor as well. I really hoped we were gonna pick Ehlers who was absolutely electric in junior. I think I heard somewhere that Jim was eyeing Virtanen or Dal Colle, give him credit, at least we got the better player. Dal Colle sucks

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6 hours ago, filthycanuck said:

Yeah, I agree, maybe late 1st at most. Was not a fan of his in his draft year. He basically bullied smaller players, or less physically gifted guys at least. I was thinking to myself watching him play " hes not gonna be able to do that in the NHL", I can see the lure of potential because his size and speed but I also believe that hes a BC boy played a pretty big factor as well. I really hoped we were gonna pick Ehlers who was absolutely electric in junior. I think I heard somewhere that Jim was eyeing Virtanen or Dal Colle, give him credit, at least we got the better player. Dal Colle sucks

I wonder if the Islander fans go on and on about Dal Colle like Nuck fans do with Jake.

 

As far as I'm concerned, Jake is done with our team; his contract will likely be bought out and forgotten.  Nuck fans should think of Demko as the 1st round pick in 2014.

 

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