Elias Pettersson | Quinn Hughes - Contract Discussion Thread

[Alflives]

22 minutes ago, bbllpp said:

Yes, paying Hughes 8M in the short term hurts the team as much as OEL in the long term.  The opportunity cost is a depth player like Staal on a one year this year and trading at pennies on the dollar for cap space to provide raises for Boeser, Rathbone, Motte and OJ next summer, keeping or replacing Sutter and replacing Halak next summer let alone the following with Miller and Horvat up with only Hamonic coming off (who’ll need to be replaced) to provide cap for them

 

Anything more than 14M for both then we are in a cap crunch until Myers comes off in 3 years and we’ll be letting assets go over the next two years to keep the core together.  Personally our D is just not good enough so I’d be moving Miller (crazy to sign him to big money at 30) to address the right side sooner rather than later and improving our cap position at the same time

There’s an obvious cap reason why the Leafs are losers.  Too much cap spent on 3 forwards.  Can’t afford depth. 

[HockeyHarry]

Imo both are 8.5 players, 7 is so lowballing and not going to happen, its just wishful thinking.
 

Canucks need to trade someone for the capspace. Who needs to be traded is anyone guess. The only guy i can maybe see trading is Motte for that needed capspace. unfortunately i like Motte alot.

 

Who else can fill the capspace gap to sign EP40 and Quinn?

[204CanucksFan]

12 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

You had me until you mentioned Brayden Point. 

There aren't many comparables to Point, he's just head and shoulders above Petey and almost everyone in the league. 

 

We have to realize that Petey is not in the top 10 forwards in the league. 

 

I do see how you can argue for him to get a deal comparable to Barzal. Petey might have slightly better PPG but Barzal has been more durable and his PPG is severely affected by the Islanders style of play under Barry Trotz. In fact if you look at their numbers compared to their teammates, I would argue that Barzal has the more impressive numbers. 

I'm really not sure how Point is "just head and shoulders above Petey". If you look at their respective career stats they are almost identical in every category. Yes, the individual point totals are higher for Brayden but it's not exactly Peteys fault that Brayden is over two and a half years older and has, therefore, played 2 more seasons. 

 

As I mentioned in a previous post, Brayden had a great contract year when his ELC was up and put up 92 points, with the best winger in the NHL at his side, but his is P/GP has gone down in each of the two seasons since and yet TB still signed Brayden to an 8 year, $9.5 million extension. In fact, in the 2019-20 season Brayden had 64 points in 66 games compared to Peteys 66 points in 68 games. 

 

And as far as Petey Vs. Point or Petey Vs. Barzal are compared don't forget that Barzal's bridge contract ($7 × 3) was considered as a direct comparable to Point's ($6.75 × 3). Barzal got a slightly larger number because the Cap increased but percentage wise they were almost exactly the same.

 

My point is that, like it or not, Point is a direct comparable to Petey. If you go for a bridge he gets a very similar bridge to Point/Barzal and if you go long term it's going to have to look very similar to Point's.

Edited September 17, 2021 by 204CanucksFan

[-DLC-]

 

Thing is, Point is 3 years older and has 3 more years in the league than Petey.  So to argue that Petey isn't where Point's at is a bit unrealistic....in 3 years he may be where Point is at.  We don't know and that's a chance a team has to take rather than lose a player WITH that potential and Petey's skillset.

 

Actually Petey stacks up pretty well against Point.  Look at the team Point's on...matters.  Don't be selling Petey short.

[kloubek]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

There’s an obvious cap reason why the Leafs are losers.  Too much cap spent on 3 forwards.  Can’t afford depth. 

Exactly this. Word is they are both looking at bridge deals - which is fine in the short term but could very possibly mess us up when it's time to re-sign or we're going to be in the same boat.

[Hairy Kneel]

Petie and Hughes have to see JB is building a stronger team around them. 

Teams are not going to be able to lock in on just Petie and Hughes now. 

Other lines are stronger and OEL will also contribute from the back end. 

I don't think a bridge deal at 3x7.5 is an insult at all. 

[JM_]

Just now, Hairy Kneel said:

Petie and Hughes have to see JB is building a stronger team around them. 

Teams are not going to be able to lock in on just Petie and Hughes now. 

Other lines are stronger and OEL will also contribute from the back end. 

I don't think a bridge deal at 3x7.5 is an insult at all. 

its also a hedge for us. What if one of them never lives up to an 8x8?

[Tyndall2]

I totally agree with Hairy.  With a bridge deal of 3 x 7.5 they then have three years at a good salary to show the Canucks (or league) that they might deserve even more down the road.  If they don't produce then the Canucks are saved the agony of a long term contract they can't get out of for an overpaid player.

[Dirtman]

So...any minute now 

[The Lock]

Honestly, is anyone going to be upset if it's 8mil as opposed to 7.5mil and, if so, why? I don't really know if I understand worrying about half a mil even if the 2 of them add up to 1mil.... like whoopdidoo?

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, The Lock said:

Honestly, is anyone going to be upset if it's 8mil as opposed to 7.5mil and, if so, why? I don't really know if I understand worrying about half a mil even if the 2 of them add up to 1mil.... like whoopdidoo?

I think, by the CBA, the cap will go up 1 million each year until the end of this contract.  So, if Petey and Quinn sign 3 or 4 year deals we will add enough cap space to resign both to larger contracts, when the time comes.  3 years we would have 1.5 more for each.  4 years it's 2 mil more for each.  Plus, Myers is done (and replaced by Woo on his  ELC) so that adds six.  We will have Petey and Quinn lead us to at least 2 Cups.  No worries.  

[The Lock]

Just now, Alflives said:

I think, by the CBA, the cap will go up 1 million each year until the end of this contract.  So, if Petey and Quinn sign 3 or 4 year deals we will add enough cap space to resign both to larger contracts, when the time comes.  3 years we would have 1.5 more for each.  4 years it's 2 mil more for each.  Plus, Myers is done (and replaced by Woo on his  ELC) so that adds six.  We will have Petey and Quinn lead us to at least 2 Cups.  No worries.  

I mean, maybe? Although we have other players we also need to worry about within 3 years time as well so I can't see it being quite that simple.

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, The Lock said:

I mean, maybe? Although we have other players we also need to worry about within 3 years time as well so I can't see it being quite that simple.

It's the core that is key.  We keep the core, and move the support guys.  Benning drafts very well, so we will have younger (cost controlled) players coming in every year.  Plus, moving a guy that's worth a first (because we have youth and depth at that position) allows us to then take that pick and trade it for an experienced player, who is on a good dollar contract.  Our cap situation, because of Benning's draft skills, looks great.  We are in a very advantageous position.  

[VegasCanuck]

2 hours ago, -DLC- said:

 

Thing is, Point is 3 years older and has 3 more years in the league than Petey.  So to argue that Petey isn't where Point's at is a bit unrealistic....in 3 years he may be where Point is at.  We don't know and that's a chance a team has to take rather than lose a player WITH that potential and Petey's skillset.

 

Actually Petey stacks up pretty well against Point.  Look at the team Point's on...matters.  Don't be selling Petey short.

I generally agree with you. Point's bridge was 6.75 million, so let's call it 7 million, 3 year bridge that has a 9 million last year so he is guaranteed a QO of at least 9 million.

 

[aGENT]

12 hours ago, Canuckster86 said:

If true, have to think 1 of Horvat or Miller are gone when their contracts are up if we have Boeser's new deal next off season and EP and QH in 2-3 years time as well. Be interesting to see what Bo and JT ask for when its time for them to re up before UFA...if they want to stay that is

This has to be a forgone conclusion to everyone, no? Miller's cap will eventually go to raises for the young core and Podkolzin will eventually take over his spot.

 

9 hours ago, HockeyHarry said:

So what player do Canucks trade so we can sign these two? Need cap space , you can’t lowball EP40 or Quinn. You gotta pay your top 2 franchise players.

 

Pearson? Sutter? but we just signed them, Myers hes needed as hes a Big Righty. Dont wanna traded any top 6 guys.

Motte maybe the only guy that can be traded….Who else is there? 

 

4 hours ago, HockeyHarry said:

Imo both are 8.5 players, 7 is so lowballing and not going to happen, its just wishful thinking.
 

Canucks need to trade someone for the capspace. Who needs to be traded is anyone guess. The only guy i can maybe see trading is Motte for that needed capspace. unfortunately i like Motte alot.

 

Who else can fill the capspace gap to sign EP40 and Quinn?

We have plenty of cap to sign both. Calm the &^@# down.

[King Heffy]

4 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

I generally agree with you. Point's bridge was 6.75 million, so let's call it 7 million, 3 year bridge that has a 9 million last year so he is guaranteed a QO of at least 9 million.

 

Hard no to that backloading garbage.  

[NHL97OneTimer]

4 hours ago, HockeyHarry said:

Imo both are 8.5 players, 7 is so lowballing and not going to happen, its just wishful thinking.
 

Canucks need to trade someone for the capspace. Who needs to be traded is anyone guess. The only guy i can maybe see trading is Motte for that needed capspace. unfortunately i like Motte alot.

 

Who else can fill the capspace gap to sign EP40 and Quinn?

EP40 and QH are obviously central to the plan and you need to take care of them.  But the reality is that teams don't win a cup by paying a few players huge money.  Yes you need scoring, but you don't win a cup without players like Motte neither.  

 

The team's success will be built upon players like EP and QH signing for a tad less than they could get elsewhere (like the Sedins did).  If they don't, then the bar has been set for the rest of the team.  How much do you pay Podz and Hoglander?  We'll already have problems with Boeser given that he'll have to be qualified over $8M/yr.  To answer your question above, we probably lose Boeser to keep EP and QH....but then need to fill that gap with hopefully an amazing young, cheap talent.

 

The Canucks are 2 contracts away from having a Toronto ML problem on our hands.  The cap isn't going anywhere with this economy.  If EP is serious about wanting to play for a winning team, he right now has a lot of power to create that in Vancouver with one signature.  

[mll]

10 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

I generally agree with you. Point's bridge was 6.75 million, so let's call it 7 million, 3 year bridge that has a 9 million last year so he is guaranteed a QO of at least 9 million.

 

The QO is now capped to 120% of the AAV.  So the QO for 7M x 3 is maximum 8.4M.  Was one of the changes to the CBA approved in July over a year ago. 

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by mll

[aGENT]

50 minutes ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

We'll already have problems with Boeser given that he'll have to be qualified over $8M/yr.  To answer your question above, we probably lose Boeser to keep EP and QH....but then need to fill that gap with hopefully an amazing young, cheap talent.

Boeser's QO is just over $7m, not $8m.

 

And it makes FAR more sense to trade/let Miller walk to clear the cap required to cover the likes of Boeser, Horvat and Hoglander's raises and let Podkolzin grow in to that role/replace him. Myers will be coming off to cover Hughes' raise if it's a 3 year year bridge. Even better if we get him for a reasonable rate for 6 years, as that's when OEL's deal will be up.

[VegasCanuck]

59 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Hard no to that backloading garbage.  

That's generally what they are doing now, to guarantee guys a better overall next contract.

 

Doesn't mean I agree with it, just it seems to be common practice now.