Elias Pettersson | Quinn Hughes - Contract Discussion Thread

[RWMc1]

4 hours ago, 204CanucksFan said:

I'm really not sure how Point is "just head and shoulders above Petey". If you look at their respective career stats they are almost identical in every category. Yes, the individual point totals are higher for Brayden but it's not exactly Peteys fault that Brayden is over two and a half years older and has, therefore, played 2 more seasons. 

 

As I mentioned in a previous post, Brayden had a great contract year when his ELC was up and put up 92 points, with the best winger in the NHL at his side, but his is P/GP has gone down in each of the two seasons since and yet TB still signed Brayden to an 8 year, $9.5 million extension. In fact, in the 2019-20 season Brayden had 64 points in 66 games compared to Peteys 66 points in 68 games. 

 

And as far as Petey Vs. Point or Petey Vs. Barzal are compared don't forget that Barzal's bridge contract ($7 × 3) was considered as a direct comparable to Point's ($6.75 × 3). Barzal got a slightly larger number because the Cap increased but percentage wise they were almost exactly the same.

 

My point is that, like it or not, Point is a direct comparable to Petey. If you go for a bridge he gets a very similar bridge to Point/Barzal and if you go long term it's going to have to look very similar to Point's.

Even if you use Point as a comparable, the long term deal still wouldn't be 9.5 million. The AAV of the bridge portion would still be around 7 million. That would bring down the AAV of the deal as only the final 5 years of the deal would be in the 9.5 million range. Using Point as a comparable for an eight year deal would put the AAV at around 8,5625 million.

 

Edit: Maybe it would be up there. I went on capfriendly and noticed his last few years are around 7 million per season and his middle years are inflated to 12 million per season. I don't think Pettersson has proven himself to the point where he's worth 12 million in salary for those years. That's a tough one for sure.

Edited September 17, 2021 by RWMc1

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, HockeyHarry said:

Imo both are 8.5 players, 7 is so lowballing and not going to happen, its just wishful thinking.
 

Canucks need to trade someone for the capspace. Who needs to be traded is anyone guess. The only guy i can maybe see trading is Motte for that needed capspace. unfortunately i like Motte alot.

 

Who else can fill the capspace gap to sign EP40 and Quinn?

Ferland LTIR is enough ...

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

This has to be a forgone conclusion to everyone, no? Miller's cap will eventually go to raises for the young core and Podkolzin will eventually take over his spot.

 

 

We have plenty of cap to sign both. Calm the &^@# down.

EPs in Vancouver.   Yes calm down. 

[86Viking]

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

This has to be a forgone conclusion to everyone, no? Miller's cap will eventually go to raises for the young core and Podkolzin will eventually take over his spot.

 

 

We have plenty of cap to sign both. Calm the &^@# down.

If so, we better be trading JT Miller for assets and not lose him for nothing in FA, doubt we are cup contenders by TDL of 2023...

[aGENT]

31 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said:

If so, we better be trading JT Miller for assets and not lose him for nothing in FA, doubt we are cup contenders by TDL of 2023...

No way to know. If we're looking anything like the solid playoff team we appear to be shaping up as, I doubt we'd move him at the TDL that year if it means sacrificing that quality F depth for a playoff run. There's like zero chance the management or players will want to be wondering 'what if', if they move him. Tough as hell to sell that to the locker room.

 

Best prepare yourself for him to walk, or at best, get his rights moved for much less at the draft, after the playoffs.

 

There's a point where you simply need to try to win (and show your remaining players that) at the expense of pure 'asset management'.

Edited September 17, 2021 by aGENT

[MikeyD]

Just the fact that Petey is back in Vancouver is a huge nod to Benning to stick to what he's offering (assuming he's keeping salary low). 

If Petey was staying in Sweden it'd say a lot about the direction he wants to go if he stayed there until after training camp. The fact he's coming early, in my opinion, shows his dedication to being about the team. 

We shall see if I'm right. 

Hopefully a bridge under 7.5 and a long term deal under 8.5. Either of those would be fantastic. 

If we could sign Petey to a long term deal 8 or under I'd be over the moon but it doesn't look like going this direction. 

[combover]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

No way to know. If we're looking anything like the solid playoff team we appear to be shaping up as, I doubt we'd move him at the TDL that year if it means sacrificing that quality F depth for a playoff run. There's like zero chance the management or players will want to be wondering 'what if', if they move him. Tough as hell to sell that to the locker room.

 

Best prepare yourself for him to walk, or at best, get his rights moved for much less at the draft, after the playoffs.

 

There's a point where you simply need to try to win (and show your remaining players that) at the expense of pure 'asset management'.

Jb has been letting assets  walk since he got here why would he try to get a return for a player now. I guess we’ve been in win mode for the past 7 seasons. 
by the trade deadline it should be clear if this team is a legit cup team or just a fringe wildcard team. a good gm wouldn’t lose a player with miller’s value just to lose in the first round or not even make it and only see him leave for nothing.
It’s call  foresight and asset management two thing Jb has yet to display and it separates   turd GMs like JB from gms that know how to actually BUILD a perennial  winner and cup contender. 
 

 

[steviewonder20]

14 hours ago, HockeyHarry said:

So what player do Canucks trade so we can sign these two? Need cap space , you can’t lowball EP40 or Quinn. You gotta pay your top 2 franchise players.

 

Pearson? Sutter? but we just signed them, Myers hes needed as hes a Big Righty. Dont wanna traded any top 6 guys.

Motte maybe the only guy that can be traded….Who else is there? 

Myers and Poolman are the two most over paid contracts we have left. We’ll see about OEL.

[PistolPete13]

12 minutes ago, combover said:

Jb has been letting assets  walk since he got here why would he try to get a return for a player now. I guess we’ve been in win mode for the past 7 seasons. 
by the trade deadline it should be clear if this team is a legit cup team or just a fringe wildcard team. a good gm wouldn’t lose a player with miller’s value just to lose in the first round or not even make it and only see him leave for nothing.
It’s call  foresight and asset management two thing Jb has yet to display and it separates   turd GMs like JB from gms that know how to actually BUILD a perennial  winner and cup contender. 
 

 

And yet Tampa just let Goodrow and Coleman walk. Go figure. 

[khay]

6 minutes ago, steviewonder20 said:

Myers and Poolman are the two most over paid contracts we have left. We’ll see about OEL.

If Poolman at 2.5 mil is the worst paid contract, there's no problem.

 

Myers at 6 is nothing like Player Name at 6.

 

Myers is playing about 20 minutes a game and scoring 20+ points without any PP time.

 

I don't think we have any dead cap now.

[NHL97OneTimer]

3 hours ago, aGENT said:

Boeser's QO is just over $7m, not $8m.

 

And it makes FAR more sense to trade/let Miller walk to clear the cap required to cover the likes of Boeser, Horvat and Hoglander's raises and let Podkolzin grow in to that role/replace him. Myers will be coming off to cover Hughes' raise if it's a 3 year year bridge. Even better if we get him for a reasonable rate for 6 years, as that's when OEL's deal will be up.

The league changed to a contract average being used for QOs, but I thought Boeser's contract is grandfathered such that it has to be 100% of the final year ($7.5M/yr....my mistake).  Still, the question is whether or not he wants a raise on $7.5M, which is arguably too much as it is.

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

The league changed to a contract average being used for QOs, but I thought Boeser's contract is grandfathered such that it has to be 100% of the final year ($7.5M/yr....my mistake).  Still, the question is whether or not he wants a raise on $7.5M, which is arguably too much as it is.

Yes he is, but it's $7.5m as I stated.

 

If Boeser continues to be the player he was last year (and likely even better moving forward), he'll likely be worth at least $7.5 (accounting for the mostly UFA years of his next deal) anyway. It's only about a $1.5m raise 

 

Boeser, nor his cap is remotely a concern.

[Gawdzukes]

35 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

Just the fact that Petey is back in Vancouver is a huge nod to Benning to stick to what he's offering (assuming he's keeping salary low). 

If Petey was staying in Sweden it'd say a lot about the direction he wants to go if he stayed there until after training camp. The fact he's coming early, in my opinion, shows his dedication to being about the team. 

We shall see if I'm right. 

Hopefully a bridge under 7.5 and a long term deal under 8.5. Either of those would be fantastic. 

If we could sign Petey to a long term deal 8 or under I'd be over the moon but it doesn't look like going this direction. 

I heard he just came to pick up his gear and then he's signing a contract to play in Sweden with Dahlen. Apparently the term is life and the compensation is friendship. @Timråfan 

[Ballisticsports.]

8 minutes ago, PistolPete13 said:

And yet Tampa just let Goodrow and Coleman walk. Go figure. 

I think what he said of having  a legit cup team instead of wildcard

 

Tampa did/does have a legit team

[Nuxfanabroad]

The 3 amigos(BB, EP, & QH) appear pretty close buds. I wonder if they've all agreed to settle on a similar AAV, in order to keep this squad together(& stronger, due to their reasonable cap hits)?

 

JB for his part, would have to agree to not trade any of them. A pretty wise concession if he had full commitment from the talented trio.

[Timråfan]

2 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I heard he just came to pick up his gear and then he's signing a contract to play in Sweden with Dahlen. Apparently the term is life and the compensation is friendship. @Timråfan 

That Benning made some bad decisions is a hard pill for you to swallow it seems. 

[King Heffy]

24 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

That Benning made some bad decisions is a hard pill for you to swallow it seems. 

If trading Dahlen was a mistake, why isn't he playing at a higher level?

[tas]

24 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

That Benning made some bad decisions is a hard pill for you to swallow it seems. 

losing a borderline nhl prospect isn't a bad decision. he received another borderline prospect in return, one whose game seems more versatile for the nhl. 

[Gawdzukes]

44 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

I think what he said of having  a legit cup team instead of wildcard

 

Tampa did/does have a legit team

And Montreal just let Danault walk, Carolina let Hamilton walk, Toronto let Hyman walk, Colorado just let Grubauer walk, Edmonton just let Larsson walk, St. Louis just let Schwartz walk, Dallas let Oleksiak walk, Florida let Wennberg walk, Winnipeg let Forbort walk, Pitt let Ceci walk, Boston let Halak walk, Detroit let Glendenning walk, Calgary let Ryan walk, New Jersey let Murray walk, Minn let Bonino walk, Arizona let Goligoski walk too.

 

Crazy, I know it can't be but it almost seems like lots of teams prefer to keep decent players right to the end and ice a good hockey team instead of selling their souls for a low chance draft pick.

 

Can't wait until we see guys like @combover and those other great CDC GM's in waiting running these teams like they should be.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Gawdzukes

[alt kilgore]

19 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

The 3 amigos(BB, EP, & QH) appear pretty close buds. I wonder if they've all agreed to settle on a similar AAV, in order to keep this squad together(& stronger, due to their reasonable cap hits)?

 

JB for his part, would have to agree to not trade any of them. A pretty wise concession if he had full commitment from the talented trio.

Aint that the fantasy we all have? 
 

instead of the agents sitting down with their clients to work out how to squeeze the maximum they can from the organization, all four, agent, EP, QH, and JB, have a head to head to discuss how best to build a winner in the next decade by being open to taking less. And then a commitment from not only JB but Aquilini as well, to keep spending to the top of the cap, and keep the three amigos together

 

 but I fear it’s usually the first scenario