What if we bought out OEL? (Updated June 16 2023)

[MaxVerstappen33]

5 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

So drop a top 4 Dman, to look for a top 4 Dman which would result in no money saved? OEL is not as bad as all the whining here makes him out to be. Like not even close. Again OEL is NOT the problem.

The league is scattered with overpaid under performing Dmen. We have him at around 7 which just isnt the end of the world. But it would be nice if he could find a groove and be better

[Hairy Kneel]

41 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

They look at stats and it shows he's tied for 2nd worst +/- on the team at -9.

Some bad defensive plays lately, illustrate the problem.

If you look at the league he's in the same neighbourhood as Cam Fowler.

So once again. What on the team is broken?

Is it the defence?

Is it the defensive systems?

Is the forwards not back checking enough?

Is it the goaltending?

Is it all the above?

 

The real question is how do we go about fixing the problems? I don't think buying him out helps the team long term.

We'll one thing that has hurt is trying to make the 3rd line a scoring line. Especially with Ries, last year we had Lammikko and Chiasson whose big bodies helped clog up the neutral zone. I'd stick with Studz and add DiGuseppe. Big bodies, and DiGuseppe has 200 NHL games under his belt. 

[canuck73_3]

10 minutes ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

The league is scattered with overpaid under performing Dmen. We have him at around 7 which just isnt the end of the world. But it would be nice if he could find a groove and be better

It would and he did last season and seems to be finding it now as well.

[Bure_Pavel]

No point buying him out until maybe the last two years. It really only makes sense to buy him out if a $2 million Dman can fill his role and we are ready to contend.   

[5nothincanucksohno]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

Why would you move both?  You could absorb losing Miller, but losing Horvat will set this team back a decade and that’ll be goodbye Petey, goodbye Hughes etc etc.  I don’t know how people can be so short sighted 

Ten years? Horvat has been in the league nine years and over that time he has been to the playoffs once (rookie year) and led the team to the bubble once (so two "playoffs"). Can't get much worse...the team has no accountability and Horvat is the Captain. Benning, etc. are all part of the problem as well but Horvat needs to have accountability as Captain (something that is lacking with many on the current team).

 

Short sighted is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Everyone likes Horvat as a player but he is not a complete player (i.e. 5v5, makes his line mates better, etc.)...he excels on the PP and at the dot. The $8M million required to sign him is better allocated elsewhere (not to mention the assets he would bring back in trade - one of which would need to be a younger center player/prospect).

 

 

 

[cocanuck]

Until this team learns to play team defense,, im not sure anybody would  look good playing on the blue line.  It is extremely tough to watch but the forwards have a responsibility here as well.  OEL isnt as bad as he is made out.  The D stands out for all the wrong reasons and the goaltending as well.. until everybody buys in its going to continue..  BB is an offensive style coach so i dont see it changing until the coach changes unfortunately.. Bruce was a good choice for the time but moving forward dont think so..  it is entertaining to watch for sure though!  We may have a better team in a few years but i love the scoring and lack of responsibility in a strange way… 

[stawns]

14 minutes ago, 5nothincanucksohno said:

Ten years? Horvat has been in the league nine years and over that time he has been to the playoffs once (rookie year) and led the team to the bubble once (so two "playoffs"). Can't get much worse...the team has no accountability and Horvat is the Captain. Benning, etc. are all part of the problem as well but Horvat needs to have accountability as Captain (something that is lacking with many on the current team).

 

Short sighted is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Everyone likes Horvat as a player but he is not a complete player (i.e. 5v5, makes his line mates better, etc.)...he excels on the PP and at the dot. The $8M million required to sign him is better allocated elsewhere (not to mention the assets he would bring back in trade - one of which would need to be a younger center player/prospect).

 

 

 

They can replace what Miller does, how are they going to replace what horvat does?  It's been a few years, now, of being a solid two way C, of being a very good face off guy........in the last couple of years he's been an elite faceoff C and last year he scores 30 and this year, he's going to pass that, easily 

 

So you have a player drafted and developed by the team who grew from young two way C, to a two way C who can be your b st face off guy, to a good two way C who is an elite faceoff guy, to a great two way C who is an elite faceoff guy and is now a 30 goal player to a 1C who is a top 3 faceoff guy in the league and will also be your top goal scorer.

 

If they let him go, how do they replace that?  There are few things more important than possession and you get possession from faceoffs.  Losing Bo would be catastrophic 

[hammertime]

Oh lord no. Can we stop paying players to not play for us. 

[GhostsOf1994]

3 hours ago, Drakrami said:

That defense looks worse than some AHL teams. 

Not to mention that core is seriously undersized.

 

take Schenn out and there's no one over 6"1 and Dermott at 6' just cracks 200lbs, that is not a winning group.

 

Hughes Bear

Dermott Burroughs

Rathbone Stillman

 

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by GhostsOf1994
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[Rabbit]

I don't see any improvements of the blue line.

[ToTellTheTruth]

Can't buy him out.

If the team does a rebuild they will need big contracts on the books for another 2 to 3 years

At that time a buyout will not hinder future trads too much

There is no avenue where buying him out now is good for the team.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

5 hours ago, Phil_314 said:

Given how Swedes' careers tend to age pretty well (they don't get hurt much and remain pretty positionally sound due to smarts)

Except for one notable exception.

[Alflives]

Buying out OEL means we count (after next season) 2 mil per on the cap for 8 years.  So pretty much we save about 5 per on the cap.  Can we find a D man to provide what OEL does for five per?  IMHAO OEL is about a 5-6 mil per player.  Just don’t see it worth buying him out.  To clear cap we should dumperoo Garland, and Trade Boeser with retention t bring him closer to five.  That way we clear ten off the cap.  Plus, after Myers gets his five mil bonus this summer he’s only a 1 mil (actual cost, but six on the cap) player.  A bottom feeder team would love that contract.  So we trade him.  That’s 16 million off our cap.  

[aGENT]

3 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

I really don't understand why people here can't figure out OEL is far from a problem.

Yeah there's a few people here who get it. But the witch hunt for him by some here is ridiculous. Actually build a worthwhile, complementary D core around him and Hughes and a forward core around Petey and Bo that actually back checks/supports the puck, and we're not even having this discussion.

 

I get the debate about the "should we have even made the trade given where we were as an org" argument. And sure, you can debate either side of that. It's not dissimilar to the Miller extension (which I'm against but D play better longer and OEL's contract doesn't last as long, so far less of an issue). But the ridiculous nitpicking around him on this train wreck of a team is just silly. He's our 2nd best D, he's paid like the top 4 D he is. He's not the problem. Same issues with Edler when we were at our depths. 

 

1 hour ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

The league is scattered with overpaid under performing Dmen. We have him at around 7 which just isnt the end of the world. But it would be nice if he could find a groove and be better

Be nice if basically everyone not named Pettersson, Hughes and Horvat could be better. Part of that is actually building a proper, complementary team around those guys instead of the random collection of ill fitting/redundant pieces and massive roster holes and zero succession plan we have to replace guys like Schenn or Myers.

If OEL is a problem on this roster, he's a problem. We have a tonne of PROBLEMS on this roster to worry about long before him.

 

And regardless, he's got an NMC, so we may as well do our best to actually try to put something around him, and try to support him and the rest of the players we want to keep. The suggestion to buy him out with dead cap that goes on forever, only to have to replace his spot (and cap) with someone likely worse is....

Edited December 9, 2022 by aGENT

[Provost]

To replace a guy that is equivalent will cost $5 million plus… we we wouldn’t be ahead even if we could find a replacement.

 

OEL isn’t the problem.  It is Myers who drags his partner down.  Bear isn’t really a top 4 guy, he is a pretty good 3rd pairing guy.  Even with him as a partner you see OEL vastly improved.

 

If you can find a shut down pairing and give OEL back more premium minutes to lean into his skillset you will see more results.

[Crabcakes]

Nobody talks about this because it sounds like an excuse.  This management group hasn't made significant changes because they, and most of the rest of the league are cap strapped.  It is not a lack of will or lack of trying.  The flat cap is screwing up a lot of teams and I'm praying that they let the cap go up this summer.   

 

So you say, why, when they need D, do they run out and sign Mikheyev and Kuzmenko?  Sometimes you have to take advantage of opportunities when you can.  And look at these guys.  4th and 5th as far as points for forwards on this team and both have + records.  They make Boeser (-14) and Garland (-6) redundant.  The top 6 will be re-shaped when they can move people.  ie Boeser, Garland, Pearson, Miller (if they can).  Getting rid of some or all of these salaries will give them room to work over the D.

 

And yes, of course they're going to make moves on the back end.  But OEL, under any cap situation will be brutal to move so they may just be stuck with him.  He's over paid sure but he's much better with a competent partner (Bear).  

 

I fully expect a new coach next year and this team will be playing a system that will really help team defense.  Love Bruce but he is no longer the right guy.

[Phil_314]

1 hour ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Except for one notable exception.

We do not talk about Player Name.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Phil_314

[Timråfan]

8 hours ago, HKSR said:

A crazy idea, but what do things look like if we bought out OEL?

 

The cap hits are as follows:

2023-24:  $146,667

2024-25:  $2,346,667

2025-26:  $4,766,667

2026-27:  $4,766,667

2027-28:  $2,126,667

2028-29:  $2,126,667

2029-30:  $2,126,667

2030-31:  $2,126,667

 

I'm gonna assume the following:

- Trade Myers with $2M retained for nothing but a pick or prospect

- Trade Pearson with $1.2M retained for a pick or prospect

- Horvat re-signed at $8M AAV

- Kuzmenko re-signed at $7M AAV

- Various raises for the other pending FAs (Hoglander, Bear, etc)

 

 

Buys us some time to move Boeser later = more leverage in a deal. 

Would be a lot easier to find a solid shut down top 4 LHD.

 

Thoughts?

Are you Benning?

Only he would make such buyout and capstrap the team even further into the future.

[eeeeergh]

7 hours ago, jyu said:

Our new tank commander. At least you would be taking some heat off of Stillman. The poor guy is being made into a scapegoat on CDC every single night.

 

 

 

“Because he's the hero Vancouver deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll scapegoat him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. Our tankmaster general. A dark knight.”

 

[NHL97OneTimer]

Miller's contract may be more complicated than OELs based on timing.  If we do a rebuild, OEL's contract would expire before we're actually back in the hunt again.....and drafted D-men will take more than 4 years to come to fruition anyway.  Myers is in the same boat for me......let his contract run its course unless we can get a pick in return.

 

Trading Miller before the next season is actually the priority in my eyes.  Trading Boeser, re-signing Bo and Kuz are the next priorities.