Elias Pettersson | Quinn Hughes - Contract Discussion Thread

[knucklehead91]

19 hours ago, ABNucksfan said:

I have to respectfully disagree in the proven part, Last year Pettersson did have a long slump, and Hughes was average to poor on actual defence. Pettersson was not the driving force that he was the seasons prior. Can we blame it on the compressed schedule? I don’t think so… Miller who is older and plays a high speed and high impact game played awesome despite the schedule.

 

both Pettersson and Hughes took a step back in a contract year albeit a difficult year, and I am afraid it is signs of their true ability now that the rest of the teams have scouted their weaknesses. 
 

Maybe my argument is more big picture… and closer to the state of the NHL today. We have young kids under 23 demanding big paydays, the rfa years and contracts are bigger than they ever have been. Look at all the greats who came before them, they had to prove themselves first. 
 

The players are becoming more and more greedy and so are the owners. Players are getting locked into bigger and bigger contracts handcuffing teams more and more. 
 

No one is thinking about the fans anymore. The fans are the ones who pay the salaries. 

 

Yes Pettersson had a “slump”, but as I said in my post, despite being in “slumps” he is getting tons of chances. He had 2 broken sticks on his one-timers in back to back games. He stopped using his one-timer for awhile after that, he lost confidence in the sticks, however he still hit countless posts all in the opening few games of the season. It wasnt for a lack of chances that he was in a “slump”guys who regress or come back down to reality just do not get those chances night in and night out. He is consistently getting grade A scoring chances. His PPG has remained pretty much in each season. Pettersson was snakebitten not slumping. Slumps are playing poorly. Snakebitten you are playing well and getting chances, just having some bad luck.
Also Hughes taking a step back??? If anything this season made him look worse than he really is. I didnt see a lot of complaints about him last season, funny enough his advanced stats are pretty much identical to his rookie season. This year was moreso of a highlight on how rough our season was as a team/organization and what we went through rather than individuals. The boys went through absolute hell playing 18 games in 30 days to start the season, get decimated by COVID and then finish off the season with 19 games in 30 days while playing at below 100% and still recovering from the virus.

 

Look at Dallas 2019-20, look at them last season. They had a similar sort of season with COVID, missing a star player and scheduling, their scheduling wasnt quite as bad as ours but same outcome. They went from SCF to early tee off times. The disruption COVID had on ours and Dallas’ seasons took both of our teams out of the playoff picture. Its not an excuse its a valid reason why the Canucks struggled, the other team who endured a similar sort of hurdles (star player injured, COVID and scheduling) missed playoffs and had a disappointing season. If you removed 1 of the 3 hurdles (missing star player, COVID, scheduling) from Vancouver and Dallas’s seasons, they would have most likely both made the playoffs.

 

Its not all on the scheduling, some guys were hit harder by COVID so its not fair or an accurate comparison when one guy is allegedly on an IV and another guy has mild to no symptoms. So just because Miller looked great and another guy looked like sh*t doesnt mean they had the same sort of recovery. Also if you are speaking about pre-covid, Miller is an experienced player, Hughes is only in his 2nd year and isnt quite as experienced and is still figuring out the pro-game. Not all guys understand early on in their career what it takes to get through a full 82 games.

 

Some players/agents are getting greedy for sure. But if you look at the % of the cap hit these contracts are taking up, its just like Sid, Ovi, Malkin, Backstrom

 

Crosby’s 2nd contract was 17.31%of the cap which is close to McDavids 16.67% 

Their contracts look ridiculously greedy in todays day and age, but its the same % of the cap because the cap has risen 30mil in the last 15 years. The only thing handcuffing teams is a flat cap. The only reason why teams have been able to continue winning and dominating each year is because the cap has continuously risen to allow cap room for teams. 

Edited September 17, 2021 by knucklehead91

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, ABNucksfan said:

Miller who is older and plays a high speed and high impact game played awesome despite the schedule.

Miller had an up and down season, at times looking like a petulant moron, and at others looking and playing like an NHL all star.

[qwijibo]

33 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

It's not the owners who will be keeping the difference, but their teammates though.  I'm 100% on the side of players earning money, but I think it could be a little more evenly distributed.

The stars are always going to get paid. Sometimes at the expense of the workmen (especially with the salary cap).  Having stars is a double edged sword. Yes. You need them to win. But you have to pay them or someone else will.  The league has skewed to be much younger the past number of years.  Guys who would be just getting theirs first sniff of NHL action 15 years ago are now expected to carry the team.  It’s the GM’s job to try to balance out the teams needs compared to the players demands.  The more stars you have the less there is to go around for everyone else.  Teams have a short window to win in them they have to sell off assets. It’s why we’ll likely never see any dynasties like the old days, but it also keeps relative parity in the league.  I’d hate to see the NHL turn into the NBA where realistically there’s only a handful of meaningful teams 

[IBatch]

4 minutes ago, gurn said:

Miller had an up and down season, at times looking like a petulant moron, and at others looking and playing like an NHL all star.

You bet.   When TG finally seemed to get it across not to pass infront of your own net with guys buzzing around ... Miller seemed to be the last player to get the memo, almost like on purpose. 

[Xur]

What happens when they sign? Are we all just going to go back to the Tucker Poolman thread? 

I hope they dont sign soon......

[HomeBrew]

26 minutes ago, Xur said:

What happens when they sign? Are we all just going to go back to the Tucker Poolman thread? 

I hope they dont sign soon......

Even if they signed today, there will be at least a weeks worth of debating the contracts and GM JBs job. Then, hopefully, we can start talking about the actual playing of hockey and Podkolzin's height/weight when training camp starts. 

 

6'1.5" and 203 lbs.... 

Edited September 16, 2021 by HomeBrew

[combover]

7 hours ago, 'NucK™ said:

When you say I devalued a guy but simply stating how many games he has played and his point totals.... I have a feeling that you're the one being biased here 

So Top line Center, Calder winner, point per game player and  one of if not the best player on the team. 
This team can’t afford not to have him in the line up. It could be argued that he’s more important to this team having success  than marner is to the leafs or makar to the Avs and for sure more than b tkachuk to the sens so.. 

 

He’s going to get paid. 
 

 

[bbllpp]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

You bet.   When TG finally seemed to get it across not to pass infront of your own net with guys buzzing around ... Miller seemed to be the last player to get the memo, almost like on purpose. 

Lol bro, and the don’t pass point to point through two guys memo got stuck in Covid quarantine

[EB43]

[Viper007]

20 hours ago, Xol said:

 

Fair enough with Boeser, but how many teams have had 3 core players hold out until preseason in a 2 year frame? 

 

I love most of the moves this summer but regardless, its worrying because these are our 2 most important players and contracts going forward

Not many teams have core players that are in their RFA years in general.  It's amazing the talent that JB has drafted.  That's why it doesn't happen.  Most teams haven't drafted their core all around the same time, as the Canucks have currently.

[Bure_Pavel]

 

Just sign the contract Petey!

 

 

[204CanucksFan]

Don't know if this has been mentioned here or not, I didn't see it in the last few pages of posts but IMac is reporting that Pettersson is already in Vancouver and Hughes is still in Michigan.

[Nuxfanabroad]

4 minutes ago, 204CanucksFan said:

Don't know if this has been mentioned here or not, I didn't see it in the last few pages of posts but IMac is reporting that Pettersson is already in Vancouver and Hughes is still in Michigan.

Holy smokes! What if it's just to "get his stuff", & he's secretly planning to fly to Russia, & get paid in gold & rubles?!

[bishopshodan]

[Bure_Pavel]

18 minutes ago, 204CanucksFan said:

Don't know if this has been mentioned here or not, I didn't see it in the last few pages of posts but IMac is reporting that Pettersson is already in Vancouver and Hughes is still in Michigan.

I would assume he is training with his bros. 

[I.Am.Ironman]

53 minutes ago, combover said:

So Top line Center, Calder winner, point per game player and  one of if not the best player on the team. 
This team can’t afford not to have him in the line up. It could be argued that he’s more important to this team having success  than marner is to the leafs or makar to the Avs and for sure more than b tkachuk to the sens so.. 

 

He’s going to get paid. 
 

 

People aren't saying that he isn't going to get paid, but the question is 'how much'. He's obviously a top tier player; no one is disputing that. The most important factor to success of a team is having a balanced cap. If EP is serious about winning like he says, then he should realize that he can't be getting $10M/year. Now this delay could just be the agent so fans need to be careful about creating a villain out of Petey because we don't have the facts.

 

Makar scored at a point per game pace as a defenceman in his contract year. Marner, even though overpaid, scored 94 points in his contract year and had 3 full seasons (77, 82, 82). Pettersson has yet to put in a full season and his production decreased in his contract year. So Pettersson is definitely below both Marner and Makar, especially in a flat cap world. How valuable they are to their teams is subjective and irrelevant. I would argue that Chabot has a larger impact on the success of the Sens than that of Makar on the Avs, that doesn't mean that Chabot deserves more money than Makar. It's the league wide comparisons and objective data that will have a larger impact on determining value.

 

As for Brady Tkachuk.. he hasn't signed it yet. The offer was "believed" to be 8x8. I would be signing that if I were him, I don't know what he is thinking about. It is an over payment at this stage in his career.... if true.

 

I maintain that EP40 should be somewhere between Barzal and Aho. There is still a week before training camp, hopefully they are both done before then.

[khay]

3 hours ago, Xur said:

What happens when they sign? Are we all just going to go back to the Tucker Poolman thread? 

I hope they dont sign soon......

Don't worry, the preseason is just around the corner, there will be plenty to talk about.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, 204CanucksFan said:

Don't know if this has been mentioned here or not, I didn't see it in the last few pages of posts but IMac is reporting that Pettersson is already in Vancouver and Hughes is still in Michigan.

No it hasn't been mentioned yet. 

 

Elias was reported to still be in Sweden a few days ago so this is good news then! Got a link? 

[VegasCanuck]

3 hours ago, qwijibo said:

The stars are always going to get paid. Sometimes at the expense of the workmen (especially with the salary cap).  Having stars is a double edged sword. Yes. You need them to win. But you have to pay them or someone else will.  The league has skewed to be much younger the past number of years.  Guys who would be just getting theirs first sniff of NHL action 15 years ago are now expected to carry the team.  It’s the GM’s job to try to balance out the teams needs compared to the players demands.  The more stars you have the less there is to go around for everyone else.  Teams have a short window to win in them they have to sell off assets. It’s why we’ll likely never see any dynasties like the old days, but it also keeps relative parity in the league.  I’d hate to see the NHL turn into the NBA where realistically there’s only a handful of meaningful teams 

Things I'd like to see change in the next CBA:

 

Lower maximum salary for one player to 12% of cap from 20% (really only effects about 1% of the players)

Increase minimum salary to 950k (effects a LOT of players)

Increase Rookie maximum contract to 1 million plus bonuses

Maximum 4 year contract term for 2nd contract with a maximum salary of 10% of cap

Maximum contract length reduced to 7 years for teams resigning and 6 for UFA's

College players remain the property of the team that drafted them, unless released by that team.

 

I think this would lead to a more competitive league. Look at what happened in Toronto (yes they based the contracts on the idea that the cap would continue to climb). You'd have all 3 guys under 10 million, (not that I want to specifically help Toronto).

 

For teams developing, it would leave more on the table for support guys as this "should" generally create more balanced salary within the teams.

 

Thoughts?  

[TFerguson]

10 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

No it hasn't been mentioned yet. 

 

Elias was reported to still be in Sweden a few days ago so this is good news then! Got a link? 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/summer-wanes-canucks-still-hopeful-courtship-pettersson-hughes/

 

"...Instead, with a week until training camp opens, the best and most important players on the Canucks are still unsigned and figuratively far away. Pettersson has returned to Vancouver from his summer home in Sweden, and Hughes remains at his off-season base in Michigan."