[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks vs Montreal Canadiens | January 23, 2021 | 4 p.m. PT | CBC, SN, CITY, TVAS

[canuck2288]

7 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

Who made bigger changes from last season? The coach or the GM? 

You think that is the sole difference?

 

and do you think our play is materially different from what was last year? We were not even in a trajectory that would have put us in the conventional playoffs. 
 

we were disjointed and disorganized then as well, nothing “changed”. Having Marky save us and covering up sins was not sustainable even last season 

[Chris12345]

10 hours ago, PositionOfPower said:

Losing is somewhat okay but the manner we do so in blitz form is very unacceptable

I prefer the blitz form to be honest.

 

The thing about the NHL is the difference between good and bad isn't that much. So when teams get blitzed it says something major is wrong and needs to be fixed. Could be hung over players, out of shape, coaching, mental etc.

 

Close games are difficult because if you lose every game 3-2 you just aren't good enough but the fix is very hard to get.

[Boudrias]

Too many fans entered this season with rose coloured glasses on after last summer CUP run. Nice to see playoffs but premature to the  evolution of this group. I thought losing Marky and Tanev was necessary considering the CAP situation. No, I won’t poke fingers at JB either. 

 

Refocus us on the prize. 2 years out this group should be a CUP contender. Many of the roster players now won’t be here. The next 3 seasons is all about maturation of the core and de development of prospects. It is about developing a team that can play more than a run & gun offence. This team does not have a shutdown capability yet. 

 

The positives I am taking from the Montreal series was that they were not ran out of the rink. Physically the stood up well. Last night they out hit Montreal and were in the game until 6 minutes left. Virtanen, MacEwen and Motte threw 13 hits or 40%. Horvat came out in the 2nd and laid 2 big time hits. Their FO % is still very strong. 

 

A little better d-zone coverage and this group can improve. Worrying about playoffs is not the #1 priority. It is continued development and TOI for those players who will be here in3 years. 

[NHTyrany]

Finally CDC calms down and the knee jerk angry posters are comatose. It's been a real challenge to watch so many high expectations trashed in such few games. Let's enjoy the transformation to next year as I think 2022 is the year we start ascending. We will have:

 

More experienced but young top 6

The end of the dead cap

More flex to fix the back end

More goalie development

 

I believe this remains part of the the plan. You don't restock your prospects overnight and my only complaint is that it should have started earlier, Edmonton should not have screwed up the draft, and the NHL continues to unfairly penalize the Nucks--that's not on Benning.

 

His actions over the next two years will be his defining moment with Vancouver and I look forward to watching it play out, including how he addresses:

 

Green's tenure,

Team toughness,

Protecting stars, and

NHL bush league antics..

 

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by NHTyrany
typo

[EddieVedder]

8 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

But benching Jake is perfectly fine? Lol. This double standard is one of my major gripes with CDC. Accountability literally only exists for Jake but everyone else is "well we can't bench so and so cause it'll hurt their confidence. Can't do that. They also just gotta learn by making mistakes" Jake Virtanen misses an assignment that leads to a scoring chance and CDC has 3 new threads about how he's garbage and a menace to society. Green has him sitting for 15 minutes after. Media loses their marbles. Petey and Hughes are actively hurting the team right now and giving up goals against but their confidence is so frail they can't be benched or anything. Just funny to me man. I suggest that benching Virtanen doesn't make sense and you gotta let him play through mistakes and CDC says "you gotta earn your spots. No handouts." Now we are suggesting leaving two liabilities on the ice to play through mistakes.

Thought Jake played really well last night.  Not sure why Green took him off the top unit.  But then the Sutter Mackewan Virtanen line had a few real good shifts too.

[D-Money]

1 hour ago, EddieVedder said:

Who are you going to replace Edler and Hamonic with?

Edler will re-sign after the expansion draft. Perhaps Hamonic too, but would prefer to look for an upgrade.

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, EddieVedder said:

Who are you going to replace Edler and Hamonic with?

Edler will replace Edler, hopefully on a 1 year under $5 mill deal.

If Hamonic can't up his level of play, he can go to some other team next season.

 

[Samgagner'sface]

Such an odd stretch of hockey. Lots of cheating going on, lots of shortcuts, especially the D. The turnover machine we've watched so far this year is just lazy hockey, along with some pretty bad luck, particularly with the top players.  Last year they were playing the right way and didn't have a lot of expectations.  This year it almost seems like they think they're good enough to not have to play the right way anymore, and it seems each failed shortcut is resulting in a goal against.  Too many low percentage gambles.  Cheating the system You're playing just doesn't work in today's NHL,  even  lesser teams will make you pay.  These growing pains were bound to happen, The kids will figure it out soon enough. 

[Podz92]

2 hours ago, canuck2288 said:

When you take away Marky and games against weak Conference/Division teams you are left with our lack of structure exposed

 

many are now seeing it but many others are still in denial buying the cr&p Green spews at his pressers 

 

the sooner we admit we need a coaching overhaul the sooner we can start to play to our potential 

 

or we can just blindly cheer on right? 

I think the coaching staff as a whole needs to go. Never have been a fan of Noel or Baumgartner, their 'systems' make me constantly shake my head, and I am so frustrated with Travis Green I don't even know if he is an NHL coach anymore...

[apollo]

I know yall prob complaining about stuff

 

But only thing I was mad about last night was that garbage commentary. Why on earth is Simpson allowed to travel to Vancouver during covid? We don't want him in our arena. 

 

What a God damn shame... They take off silver fox John Garrett and they put this plug for our games? 

 

Tbh I switched to the French feed for 3rd period, couldn't stand them. I barely speak a lick of French but was way more enjoyable that hearing his dumb comments. 

 

Hughson has really gone downhill too... 

 

As for the team, we'll be fine. No real camp, no preseason games... Not a big deal to start a little slow imo. 

 

FREE JOHN GARRET! 

 

If it wasn't for juice and burky I'd never watch that feed. Radio with Hirschy is even better 

Edited January 24, 2021 by apollo

[davidgoliath]

6 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Unfortunately, I believe you are right.   The Canucks Season will be over in 2 months and then $20M+ will come off the books for next year and that will begin to allow us to move ahead with the rebuild.  Then the year after another $22M comes off and we'll be in even better shape with all the dead wood and anchor contracts gone.  By then we'll have a new NHL Caliber coach and completely different coaching staff and should be very good shape.   So just hold your breath.  Not too much longer to wait and forget about this year - and just have fun on CDC criticizing TG and the Lazy-Deadwood players while they're still here.   There's lots of enjoyment in that. 

Been holding my breath so long I’m turning blue and green!

[Westcoasting]

10 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

What's the difference?

 

MARKSTROM

 

This year there is no one to make the miracle saves to keep the team in the game.

 

Benning had two years to decide what he should do with his two goalies... two years to get something back for his assets.

 

He did nothing... and ended up with nothing.

 

Same applies to Tanev's case.

 

No, Benning was too busy selling the farm to get the Canucks into the playoffs for two series.

 

 

 

I’m surprised you didn’t make a new post!

[davidgoliath]

4 minutes ago, apollo said:

I know yall prob complaining about stuff

 

But only thing I was mad about last night was that garbage commentary. Why on earth is Simpson allowed to travel to Vancouver during covid? We don't want him in our arena. 

 

What a God damn shame... They take off silver fox John Garrett and they put this plug for our games? 

 

Tbh I switched to the French feed for 3rd period, couldn't stand them. I barely speak a lick of French but was way more enjoyable that hearing his dumb comments. 

 

Hughson has really gone downhill too... 

 

As for the team, we'll be fine. No real camp, no preseason games... Not a big deal to start a little slow imo. 

 

FREE JOHN GARRET! 

 

If it wasn't for juice and burky I'd never watch that feed. Radio with Hirschy is even better 

100%. And that over-stuffed suit whose kid plays for Boston, absolutely inane commentary. Our local guys rock.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

9 minutes ago, apollo said:

As for the team, we'll be fine. No real camp, no preseason games... Not a big deal to start a little slow imo.  

To be fair, that applies to all the other NHL teams.

 

It's a concern but like a short-term winning streak, its a small sample size.  Like the reaction I usually get from those of the opposite gender on a Saturday night.

[FlyLow_]

4 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

It's a real shame because individually I thought everyone had a strong game. On paper we're a solid team, but the way we're being deployed right now, Green's system is setting us up for failure.

 

Top line was buzzing, Miller's best is still yet to come but Petey had his best game in a while. Sure the stumble and breakaway was abyssmal but nice goal and could have had 1 or 2 more. The PP was really clicking nicely generating lots of chances, and Brock was fighting hard on both lines he was on.

 

Pearson I thought fought really well, especially on the PK, and Bo was great all around as well. Hoglander started slow but once he was put back onto the 2nd line he played like a big man - taking players wide then crashing the net. The goal he scored is how we need to play - just quickly throw pucks to the net. He had no right to score, not facing the goal but he knew there was a good screen and Price couldn't see it. Smart player.

 

I thought Sutter was brilliant on the PK and had good moments on 5 on 5 too. Virtanen skated well but did nothing else for me apart from the one flubbed chance. MacEwan played a hell of a game and deserves more time - some nifty in-tight playmaking and threw his body like it was the playoffs. 

 

Our fourth line we're solid too defensively, Beagle and Motte really played Montreal hard, played a good forecheck and defensively got out well.

 

On defence I thought Edler was so solid as usual, we don't appreciate what he does for us still but he only ever gets beaten with top end skill and speed (eg. McDavid) which Montreal don't really have so dealt with them easily. Schmidt for me really hasn't come as advertised, he's missing a lot of pick ups and isn't as crisp as he was in Vegas but obviously needs time to adjust. Myers played well, good to see him throw the body around too, this is the most physical he's ever been in his career. Hughes was decent as usual with some nice keep ins but nothing special, and Benn played very well defensively, wasn't caught out at all. Juolevi played really well too, that post and goal was a very unlucky sequence for a rookie to learn but this guy is going to be solid, we just need to groom him properly and hopefully our gaudy +/- doesn't weigh on him.

 

In net, Holtby made a couple of saves but the first goal and another were freebies we just can't afford. Then we hang him out to dry so can't complain.

 

On the whole, our players played hard tonight, fought well individually but Green is putting them in positions to fail. That Miller cross-blueline pass through two Canadiens is a carbon copy of the Pettersson give away and these are smart players being forced to try to keep the puck in when it's just not going to happen. The way we play is going to gift teams breakaways and the frustrating thing is, we don't need to play that way to have success. Look at Montreal rarely pinching but their D still scoring - that's how we should play. Low risk high reward plays. 3-2 with 10 minutes to play and all we need is a PP and some sustained pressure, not forcing things that lead to a breakaway the other way.

 

These losses are all on Green, the players played their best hockey tonight but the coaching staff set them up to failure. The coaches have to figure out a sweet spot of offence and defence because we can't leave our young D and bad goalies out to dry like this, and don't have to when we have such a good PP.

 

I've always been a fan of Green but if this continues JB has to make a hard decision because it's not 1 or 2 player's fault.

Montreal's D doesn't have to pinch as much because Montreal has an excellent forecheck. Something we've never had with Green or JB here.

[iinatcc]

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

Refocus us on the prize. 2 years out this group should be a CUP contender. Many of the roster players now won’t be here. The next 3 seasons is all about maturation of the core and de development of prospects. It is about developing a team that can play more than a run & gun offence. This team does not have a shutdown capability yet. 

Well of course by then Hughes, Boesser, and Pettersson will be out of their ELC / Bridge Deals they will eat more into the cap and Horvat's contract is up soon after I think. So Vancouver never got the change to capitalize on this opportunity as what most Hockey experts are recommending.

 

And this is only if we still have these players by then. Whose to say that Boesser, Petterrson, Hughes, and Horvat all get tired of losing and either refuses to resign or demands a trade? Then Benning (if he still around) will do something stupid and overpay for players either in Free Agency or Trade hurting the team long term to keep them happy but leaves the team anyways.

 

So were back in a vicious cycle. 

[-DLC-]

13 hours ago, stawns said:

Of course they are.

OMG this just shows how much you're wrapped up in your own narrative.  You have NO idea what the coaches are doing...none.  It doesn't matter if you have coached, taught or been a psychic - this definitive statement, along with the ones about Petey and Quinn being caught up in their own hype, is all pure speculation.  Your opinion, which doesn't make it fact.

 

Anyhow...as far as hockey goes, I watch because this is my team and I support them.  Win or lose.  Even when it's dreadful.  It's ok to talk about possibilities and discuss the situation, but NONE of us are an authority on what's happening with the team.  We have no idea about their personal situations, if they're injured, how their mental game may be suffering and it's  likely not lack of effort, it's lack of certainty.   They're tentative, not quitting.  Their games aren't working.   Which is where coaches CAN help but maybe are not.  I don't know if they are...neither do you.  There are some BAD coaches and teachers out there...it's not an indicator of superiority.  Which sometimes becomes the issue...when ego gets in the way.  When people think they know the best and aren't open to new ideas if theirs aren't working.  I think our defensive and special teams coaching staff are stagnant.  I think Manny's departure has had an impact...he really connected with players and his leadership is likely missing. 

 

Just as it happens IN school, mental hurdles can impact performance and results.  My daughter had a terrible teacher through one of the most difficult times in her lives at school and she did give up.  Not because of a flaw in her...but a flaw in him.  He didn't understand how to motivate her...to support her.  People ARE humans and coaches aren't infallible.  You seem to put them on a pedestal but they're as open to criticism as the players are.  They're the leaders...the directors of it all.   

 

Anyone throwing Quinn and Petey under the bus at this point is suspect to me.  Young guys, have SHOWN they have the ability to be game changers but are struggling...obviously a lot to do with the extra attention they get.  That's where good coaching can really help lead them through the rough patches.  You don't just blame "lack of effort"...because that wasn't there before.  Lack of direction.

 

There are a number of things that could be derailing these guys...one of which is mostly lack of experience.  How to navigate the lows and the highs...because there will be both.  How unscathed they get through them matters.  You don't go directly to punishing to "teach" someone...sometimes you work with them to identify how you can support them instead.  I do feel the coaches are doing that by exercising patience...they may not know how, that's all.

 

Look...I am in Jake's corner but he's a guy that you've given free passes to....have exercised patience with.  Do the same with these two...they've earned it every bit as much.  You didn't support Jake's lowered minutes and sitting, so why switch sides?  To even things up and be "fair"...but you didn't feel it was fair for him so it shouldn't be for them (in your mind).

[UKNuck96]

13 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

Well of course by then Hughes, Boesser, and Pettersson will be out of their ELC / Bridge Deals they will eat more into the cap and Horvat's contract is up soon after I think. So Vancouver never got the change to capitalize on this opportunity as what most Hockey experts are recommending.

 

And this is only if we still have these players by then. Whose to say that Boesser, Petterrson, Hughes, and Horvat all get tired of losing and either refuses to resign or demands a trade? Then Benning (if he still around) will do something stupid and overpay for players either in Free Agency or Trade hurting the team long term to keep them happy but leaves the team anyways.

 

So were back in a vicious cycle. 

The window we have if you look at the timings of contracts was always 2 years away, last season was a bonus. EP and QH on ELCs is a bonus but not may cup winning teams have the core stars on ELCs when they won, it’s normally the secondary cast - ie the Hogs, Pods, Rathbones etc of the group. The time now and to then is to build a solid core that those players can slot into and win. It means in 2 years the window isn’t just opening but we are looking at winning from then and have a developed identity and the cheap complimentary pieces coming through 

Edited January 24, 2021 by UKNuck96

[Ajax-]

14 hours ago, Violator said:

When will green or the players take this seriously.

Do you seriously think the entire team does not take this seriously? Right!

[Squamfan]

2 hours ago, Chris12345 said:

Who was offered $1m by other teams? Myers? 

Beagle